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#164921 - 2006-07-26 02:41 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase - 170
Benny69 Offline
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I donít think that any of us would use any script that takes days to run, most of us get frustrated with almost any program that does not react within seconds. I think that brute force has its place and if it can be used in practical situations it should be allowed, otherwise there should be penalties for the score that start adding up quickly after 20-30 seconds (the point of frustration).
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#164922 - 2006-07-26 02:49 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase - 170
DrillSergeant Offline
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I agree with benny. Set up a POF limit and penalty points for every time the POF limit is exceeded.

Rating = strokes + 2^(Run Time/POF limit)

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#164923 - 2006-07-26 04:29 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase - 170
Shawn Administrator Offline
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I agree with the POF and penalty concept too. It easier said than done though.
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#164924 - 2006-07-26 05:19 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase - 170
Benny69 Offline
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i don't think it would be that tough, jooel has been playing with something similar, and i think rogier has the right idea;

after stop time of script:
Code:

If $runtime > $POF
$strokes = $strokes + 2^($run_time - $POF)
EndIf

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#164925 - 2006-07-26 05:22 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase - 170
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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2 xor (runtime - POF)?
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#164926 - 2006-07-26 05:24 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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btw, a note on the brute force thingie.
my longer code was one too.
altought it had only a looper of 0 to 19, the basics were the same.

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#164927 - 2006-07-26 05:31 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Exactly - thats why we have to be careful about the term brute-force. One can argue that the 170 code does a brute-force search for part of the answer (scan mayan table) - versus Rogiers code that is totally algorithmic. The Rogier 185 code uses a brute-force recursive teqhnique.
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#164928 - 2006-07-26 05:32 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
DrillSergeant Offline
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runtime divided by pof

Code:

If $runtime > $POF
$strokes = $strokes + 2^($run_time / $POF)
EndIf



so a POF of 20 secs gives:

running for 10 secs = 2^(10/20) = 0
running for 20 secs = 2^(20/20) = 2
running for 40 secs = 2^(40/20) = 2*2 = 4
running for 60 secs = 2^(60/20) = 2*2*2 = 8
etc...

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#164929 - 2006-07-26 05:36 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
DrillSergeant Offline
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Quote:

2 xor (runtime - POF)?
Quote:



^ = 2 raised to the power (runtime - POF)
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#164930 - 2006-07-26 05:43 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Shawn Administrator Offline
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What if we set the POF at 15 minutes. If a script took 5 hours to run. What would be the penalty ?
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#164931 - 2006-07-26 05:55 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
DrillSergeant Offline
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POF 15
TTR 5 * 60 = 300

2 ^ (300 / 15) = 1048576

Not reasonable? it has a POF * 20, that's pretty frustrating... take your 'bad coffee'-annoyance on monday morning and multiply that by 20...

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#164932 - 2006-07-26 06:03 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Benny69 Offline
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i think that the POF would be set for each tournament depending on what is trying to be accomplished, and as far as 'Brute Force' I see that as any code that in any way or form that counts 1 by 1 until the result is found. if it can be accomplished inside the POF it should be allowed, if it is outside the POF then penalties should be applied.
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#164933 - 2006-07-26 06:29 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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^2 does raise?
damn, should have realised that mid-round.

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#164934 - 2006-07-26 07:29 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
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My 2 cents.

Well I can't speak for everyone as some will disagree, but I think we all participate in one form or another for the fun of it and not all this haggling and disagreement.

I'm sorry but I just can't see myself bogging down my computer for hours so that I can't really use it for anything else just to have the lowest score because there is no time limit and I really want to win at all costs.

I would suggest that the challenges be limited to challenges that normal optimized proper coding techniques can complete within 30 minutes on a P4 800Mhz 256MB system.
Then any Golfing code must complete within 1 hour.
If your code can not complete within 1 hour then you need to come up with some other type of code.

This would allow Jens or others to validate entries properly within a reasonable time frame.
If you had 10 entries of code that took 3 days each to run it would take a month to validate the code which is just not reasonable.

So - my suggestion is any submitted Golf code must pass the scoring engine and complete within 1 hour period.

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#164935 - 2006-07-26 07:41 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
maciep Offline
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I agree with Doc. 1 hour seems like a reasonable amount of time for any golf challenge. That's probably the simplest solution for the 'brute-force' debate.
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#164936 - 2006-07-26 08:11 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Benny69 Offline
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POF may not be the way to go, but I do think we all are in agreement that time boundaries need to be set. I think 1 hour is a bit too long, but it is not unreasonable. I do think that the 1 hour time frame should be limited to what I would call a slow machine, say a PIII 800mhz, so if the same code was run on a machine like mine 2.8ghz dual core it should have to take less than 1 hour.

Edited by benny69 (2006-07-26 08:12 PM)
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#164937 - 2006-07-27 01:13 AM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Shawn Administrator Offline
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I am in complete agreement with Doc.
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#164938 - 2006-07-27 02:17 AM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
NTDOC Administrator Offline
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Well perhaps we can get input from Jens and Jooel too.

Over all I would say the 1 hour is too much as well, but I didn't want to seem to be too restrictive in case Jens or whomever sets up a Golf challenge came up with something that legitimately takes maybe 10 minutes or more to run with proper coding techniques.

If everyone is in agreement then maybe set the maximum time to complete the challenge to 15 minutes.

The speed and type of the PC to validate the challenge should not be such a big issue either (imho) if itís going to spoil the spirit of the game.

The code should complete within the 15 minutes on ANY commercially sold retail computer within the last 2 years that is not bogged down with spyware or is incapacitated in some other form or fashion that would negatively impact itís normal performance.

A.) Must pass scoring engine tests
B.) Must complete script execution within 15 minutes


I would also like to ask that TRIM be added to the scoring engine code to remove the tab/spaces in the CPU name.

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#164939 - 2006-07-27 02:24 AM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Benny69 Offline
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well said Doc
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#164940 - 2006-07-27 02:48 AM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Agreed - 15 minutes is about my POF too.
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