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#164861 - 2006-07-24 08:02 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Shawn Administrator Offline
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There's been no rules broken so far. Jens gave his explaination sighting the rules. You got your change-parameter rule verified. I withdrew my crappy scripts because of the rules. So what other rules were broken ?

By the way - my take on correct syntax is - as long as the interpreter doesn't complain about it - its correct syntax.

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#164862 - 2006-07-24 08:41 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Jochen Administrator Offline
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correct I say!

Incorrect syntax results in syntax errors.
Commented or left keywords that doesn't result in syntax errors
may bend the rules not break them
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#164863 - 2006-07-24 09:21 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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shawn, he disqualified code qualified by the rules.
so, it seems he can twist them at will.

btw, nice find on that 174.
sad that it don't approve $=$/20 though.

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#164864 - 2006-07-24 10:17 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Shawn Administrator Offline
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Listen man, I apologize for being an asshole. Your one of the best darn scripters out there - it bugs me when you pull these cheap tricks. You got more skills than that man. Sorry buddy.
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#164865 - 2006-07-24 10:20 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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well, maybe I ain't as good as you think.
maybe I just got you fooled.
maybe those tricks are all that I know.
but please, don't tell anyone.

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#164866 - 2006-07-24 11:02 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Shawn Administrator Offline
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yeah ok. well if you can "squeeze out" a 173 - that would be real impressive - I'm currently Kixtart constipated.
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#164867 - 2006-07-25 01:10 AM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Shawn Administrator Offline
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I am drawing a blank here man.
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#164868 - 2006-07-25 06:26 AM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Sealeopard Offline
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Shawn summed it up regarding correct syntax:
Quote:


By the way - my take on correct syntax is - as long as the interpreter doesn't complain about it - its correct syntax.




The interpreter is not complaining, so why should I

It's not my fault that KiXtart doesn't check for closing ENDIFs. But if everybody wishes I can submit this as a) a bug report to Ruud to be fixed in the next version, or b) an incorrect description in the KiXtart Manual as ENDIFs are apparently optional. Maybe the corresponding entry should be written as IF...[ELSE]...[ENDIF] to indicate otional ELSE/ENDIF.

Regarding the brute-force methods, I have Jooels code running on my work-laptop since this morning and that thing is not making much progress. I consider this common business laptop model (IBM T40) as representative of a "somewhat slower" computer.

And just to make it clear, I have not disallowed brute-force methods outright, maybe one of the next KiXgolf challenges might even use one. What the rule does not allow is excessive run-times to solve the challenge. Three days on a rather fast computer and then extrapolated most likely six days for the complete set of tests is in my mind on the rather excessive side.

An updated ranking of the public challenge will follow tomorrow.
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#164869 - 2006-07-25 07:42 AM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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jens, you consider 2,8GHz celeron a fast computer?

and, if you run the code with the test cases you gave us and not your hidden private tests, it will surely finish in time.

now, if the rule does not allow excessive run-times, you should change the rule to say that.
as now the rule says "as long as the code finishes inside the phase's alloted time, it's ok"
and again, 3 days is lot less excessive than what the rule says is allowed.

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#164870 - 2006-07-25 09:12 AM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Richard H. Administrator Offline
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Agreed the run time rule is not very clearly defined.

I'd suggest setting an explicit run time and hardware - say a maximum of three hours on, ooh I dunno, a 2.8Ghz Celeron

If you only propose challenges which would reasonably be expected to complete in seconds or minutes a restricted time limit is not going to be onerous.

Sure, it will mean that some methods cannot be used, but that's part of the challenge - if you try a tricky shot off the fairway over the trees and you land in the lake then you have to accept a dropped shot and try another way around.

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#164871 - 2006-07-25 09:52 AM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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one could also add cpu usage measurement to the score engine and every zillionth tick would increase the score with a penalty of one.
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#164872 - 2006-07-25 10:21 AM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
DrillSergeant Offline
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golf rules

detail

So Jens could set a time limit as one of the requirements for each specific golf round and penalties for additional time units.


Quote:

every zillionth tick would increase the score with a penalty of one.



Then we would be making computer tweaking part of the game.


Edited by DrillSergeant (2006-07-25 10:24 AM)

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#164873 - 2006-07-25 02:43 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Shawn Administrator Offline
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I applaud Jen's patience here. I mean, if everyone wrote these kinds of scripts - he would need weeks and prolly a server farm to validate these kinds of answers. And I think hes being pretty generous by using a 1.5ghz machine - the official Perl rules site a 100mhz P II as a "somewhat slow computer".

Having said that - assuming Jooels script finishes in a reasonable time or not - and with Jen's OK - I have no problem sharing the private round 1st place with Jooel - he deserves something.

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#164874 - 2006-07-25 02:57 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
maciep Offline
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Can you share it with me too?
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#164875 - 2006-07-25 03:17 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
DrillSergeant Offline
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and me?
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#164876 - 2006-07-25 03:25 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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not just sure why he needs to re-validate it.
I already ran the tests...

and rogier, what you mean computer tweaking?

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#164877 - 2006-07-25 03:41 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
DrillSergeant Offline
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Quote:

and rogier, what you mean computer tweaking?




well... if I have a heavy script that I want to run as fast as possible, I would shut down unnecesery services, stop unneeded processes, etc.

That would make my script run faster, won't it?

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#164878 - 2006-07-25 03:43 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Shawn Administrator Offline
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According to the rules - wouldn't all long-running scripts need to be independently verified on the target "slow-computer" ? Would that imply that folks with extremely fast machines would have an advantage over others ?
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#164879 - 2006-07-25 04:35 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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no, you boys got it wrong.
the script uses processing time.
it has nothing to do with the time spent by other processes.

where was that kixFlop() udf of mine...

anyways, calculating approximate speed of a computer and then comparing the time spend by the script to run.
when using huge number of "flops" to add single stroke penalty, it doesn't matter if the speed tester is 110% accurate or not.

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#164880 - 2006-07-25 06:38 PM Re: KiXgolf: Mayan Number Converter - Public Phase
StarwarsKid Offline
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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy...
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