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I got tired to make really nice manual as there is already the chm version (as example) so, made tiny "manual" this is manual including all keywords: -commands -functions -macros and its size is huge: 146k also, on new kix releases, should be fast updated as my 2k scripts runtime on 4.12 manual was 30s!!! to see and learn fast, see: www.gwspikval.com/jooel/manual |
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Dear, Very handy and fast. greetings. |
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eh, just thought I would check again and saw that script made some mistakes. to see yourself, in function reference, there is some function topics devided into main and one with name "value". |
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Such things can always happen during developping a script. Most important is that we like the format you had choosing. For us it isn't any discussion. You will fix it. greetings. |
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A few other problems too. USE is missing from the 'All Keywords' list and in the 'Commands' list it returns a 404. Same with a few others. |
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Command Reference and Function Reference are rather bare as well. |
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yeah. trying to crack this down. when line was: until $ref[$+2]="action" or $+3>ubound($ref) all was good expect some exceptions. then did: until ($ref[$+2]="action" and 0=len($ref[$+1])) or $+3>ubound($ref) and it went bugga binga-k. dunno how kixtart works with these binary logics but I thought I wrote: (if element $+2 is "action" and the element before that is empty) or $+3 is more than element total, continue. well, you can see that it does not work like that. |
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I'll just have to take your word for it. |
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boys, fixed. check it out. {edit} it was matter of miscalculation. instead of $+1 it should have been just $ [ 05. December 2002, 04:14: Message edited by: Lonkero ] |
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Lonkero, you did it again. greetings. |
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not working for anyone else? |
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On pages that should show the IP address in padded 3 char octets, it seems to strip out the spaces. |
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as example? |
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http://www.gwspikval.com/jooel/manual/macros/19.html |
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nope. that is correct, check your manual. it has cut the topic though. so, macro ref needs re-design... |
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Actually I did, but in reality it truncated. " @IPADDRESS0 is 123. 45. 6. 7." from the end of the line. |
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it is cut... if I say so no, "it is split" is the correct wording. |
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cut, split, truncated... |
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what about now? |
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Close... but no cigar! Where there should be two spaces there is only one. |
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sorry dude, I don't fix the manual. it is in original, should I re-write it manually? |
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Yes, and while you're at it post to Suggestions or Beta. |
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no can do, I'm too afraid that you will move it to general or close or delete. |
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But you are moderator too. |
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and at the same forum that makes me not want to interfier with your mod-job and disturb our peacufull co-work |
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Jooel, I like the format and is pretty speedy as you have broken up the files.. However.. (yes, I know ) In the case of the "All Commands" if you click on a Macro for example, one does not know if it is a Command, Function, or Macro. A person who has worked with KiX for a while would know, but someone new would not. Kent |
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does it matter when there is correct syntax in the file? also noticed I was searching something from the all page but then remembered that there is no short on that part. I could add in the all the lines where starts what peace but the idea of the all is to just quickly find something out. as an example if someone ask for some usage, copy&paste from there and say RTFM anyway, I've seen that my stuff is never used by anybody else but the regulars so I don't see that as an issue. |
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I have a simple question that related to valuable time (please no one flame me for asking): Why are we all duplicating our efforts to accomplish the same goals? We already have the KiXtart manual in HTML form. ScriptLogic maintains this conversion and offers it in a single file (compiled Microsoft CHM format). If people want the manual online, in addition (or as an alternativ) to a downloadable compiled HTML version, it can be easily accomplished without a duplication of effort. Remember, the folks at ScriptLogic had to first write the HTML pages before linking and compiling them. That means they already have them in a non-compiled form. If the KiXtart manual is wanted online, then just ask them to publish it. I believe that in the 3.6x days, ScriptLogic did post the manual online, and then it was snaked by someone, then released in a compiled form by that person. So, then ScriptLogic decided to compile it instead. Great theory, except that compiled html files can be decompiled and turned back into individual html pages (case and point of this can be found over at http://helpdesk.kixtart.org What I'm saying is that since nothing is sacred, nor does it need to be -- simply try asking for what you want from someone that already did it. Does this make any sense or am I way off base here in trying to coordinate efforts? -Brian [ 06. December 2002, 08:33: Message edited by: bstyles ] |
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Brian, I think perhaps some of the thought or thinking here is that if one is in control of his own workings it is preferred. Meaning that he can add/modify/edit at will without having to ask someone else to do it when they get time. Then perhaps he/she thinks that heck, I'm doing this for myself - why not make it at least available to others as well. There is also the idea fact kind of what Lonkero and I are doing with the UDF Collection. We basically run a script and "semi" mirror it in case one of our sites is down. Not sure what you mean about my site being a good example of decompiling code. Unless you mean the code that built the web page itself. If you mean the .chm file... that is all hand done by me alone. |
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also, what comes to this html-helpfile. I've wanted to do it for 1.5 years now, like helpdesk.kixtart.org has. mine just wasn't before done in proper way hence didn't know the methods. this was my spare time project and I know I'll rather you this than click to check on help-file. I have all my own important sites in my homepage and in my sig and those are the ways I access the info. also, don't think that me having my reference takes any respect from the real manual (or the little mis-interpreted chm-helpfile)... it's just a value-add for me and maybe to someone else who wants to quickly click on bookmark to check something out. and also, this page is not in any part hand written as it's translated directly from doc. still it's not as on the fly as helpdesk site has. maybe because my webserver does not support office-com. ok, I can see myself starting to repeat myself, but anyway, this is not dublication, just my test to see how far my wings can fly. can't see any problem with that... [ 05. December 2002, 22:05: Message edited by: Lonkero ] |
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Brian, I think the real issue is that these guys are consummate tinkerers. It's more the journey than the destination. The problem is as you mentioned, that the effort is divided and instead of one great resource we have a bunch of mediocre ones. Sorry guys... no disrespect intended. For example, with the on-line manuals, I've yet to find one with a good search tool. Maybe in the spirit of one-upmanship, you could do it better and we'll let the page hit counter decide the winner. |
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eh, counter not working currently on my "public" server. |
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Thanks for the prompt feedback: NTDOC: quote:My bad I didn't mean you. I meant to say http://helpdesk.kixtart.org/ has decompiled the kixtart411.CHM and posted it online to his site (and without giving appropriate credit to ScriptLogic unfortunately) Lonkero: I'm just offering a suggestion to save you time. What I'm trying to say is that it is fine to have 10 KiXtart-focused sites with published HTML help pages, but it is foolish for 10+ people to maintain their own html source files. Why not simply repost & share what has already been done? Yes, use someone else's work -- just get permission first and give appropriate credit to the author(s), and maybe even improve it. ScriptLogic already did it [and with all bias] I can say that they did a damn good job -- they even improved on the original (you have to admit that those 'see also' hyperlinks help tremendously)! http://www.scriptlogic.com/kixtart/htmlhelp/Reference/!keyword-index.htm Just my two cents, but the advice (opinion?) is offered becuase I know how valuable time is -- mine, yours, everyone's... -Brian PS - Lligfeta: you can do full text searches in the compiled (CHM) version today -- always could. Are you looking for something in addition to that? |
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The search is working perfect Brian ! hmmm ... what about keyword index ? Not implemented or am I on the wrong path |
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Brian, Search works fine on the CHM. I was making reference to the on-line versions. |
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Brian, first off, I want to say thanks to Scriptlogic for supplying the CHM. I use it all the time. I do have a request. Is it possible to get the Index and Search tabs of the CHM working? |
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Chris, Search works in my copy. Was not the case with 3.x but 4.12 is fine. I use the keyword index on the contents tab. Brian, I just DLd the latest revision (04-Dec-2002). Thanks for the speedy update and sorry for being a dumb user posting to the first forum in the list. |
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brian, my time with current salary and the fact being bachelor by will do not make the time so costly... anyway, learning how kix works and studying some com objects is an investment. I don't know all kixtart stuff on scriptlogic site but know that kixtart.org's stuff is coming slowly and that I want some good way to reach the stuff by myself. and, as addition, I'm not so regular scriptlogic's site reviewer. I go there for special needs. these are development report and this board being silent I may see if there is something happening. anyway, what comes helpdesk.kixtart.org, you can say whatever but I believe what the brian there told us: http://www.kixtart.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000043#000015 and, I must wonder scriptlogic keeping kixtart board on their site as there is one which is even alive. or should this be also switched to there? |
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Lonkero, You can do what you want with your time. I am only trying to help. The help is free -- so is the advice -- you need not take it, but the offer remains. Regarding the HTML help: The pages at helpdesk.kixtart.org are identical to those of the CHM (and online reference) from ScriptLogic.com. If you agree, as you should (just look at them both), then it is obvious that someone copied someone else's work. You either believe Brian Peterson or me -- there is no middle ground. It appears that you believe Brian Peterson -- too bad - he is a liar. I have just posted a reply to the other thread. I'm not insulted you don't believe me (just disappointed). As mentioned in the other post, this is obviously somthing that is really annoying me now. I kindly ask you to ask Ruud about the author of those HTML pages. Ruud knows, because the real author sends the source to Ruud on a regular basis. Lastly, I'm not sure I understand your last statement about the kixtart forum @ scriptlogic.com. Are you saying that it is not as busy as this board, therefore should be discontinued? Remember: ScriptLogic's site was the first to introduce the Beta and Wish List (Suggestions) forums for KiXtart. That ideas was promptly copied here. A lot of good ideas and helpful work come out of ScriptLogic (obviously good work, since so much of it is copied). I think that the more they contribute to the KiXtart community the better! -Brian |
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read that comment in there. why I believe brian? it's just that he said he did something. you saing he is liar, can't decide. I have no hard copy of what everyone has done, so how could I know it is direct copy? what if he just make it just the same? not sounding so wise cause then someone would accuse, but anyway. what comes to connecting ruud about, it's hard enough to get ruud's attention on bug informs to not harden it with this kind of stuff. and then, the kixtart board thing, I was referring your talks about having spread resources like the help-file. my intension was to say, that there is room in the world. as long as it's not bad, it's good. right? and as most important, help is welcome and surely will ask once needed... or, once my pride gives me permission. bottom line is, what more coded and seated on me chair, monitoring www and searching for something, the more I give respect to scriptlogic. not because of it's product (not used), not because it's un-replaceable, but purely because it has done so much work which is helpfull to persons not using it's products. and that all free. almost forgot... about copying the board names, we should go back to those threads where the new boards were discussed. I can't believe that there is 1 person limit who may invent the same thing. cheers. btw, where is that beta forum? can't seem to find... |
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Brian, Could I make one small suggestion? Add a download link for the CHM to your on-line version of the manual. One more thing... could you get Henri to post the latest CHM here on kixtart.org downloads? Thanks for your contribution to the KiX cause. |
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Dear Brian, We agree with you about a lot of things.
btw: keep on going the your great input to the kixtart community. [ 07. December 2002, 17:22: Message edited by: MCA ] |
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Dear Lonkero, About I have no hard copy of what everyone has done, so how could I know it is direct copy?. When we analyze both versions and we trace back the history of CHM files is it impossible that "helpdesk.kixtart.org" presents in their version - same structure - same mistakes - same additional information - same internal names and claim it as their effort when Scriptlogic has already published his version. Also we think Scriptlogic will not have copyright problems by stealing others work. Negative publicity can be catastrophic for their organization. We don't think also they will risk it with an issue which isn't really necessary to have for their core business. About I have no hard copy of what everyone has done, so how could I know it is direct copy?. We have it are the CHM files. It cost only some effort to analyze it. greetings. [ 07. December 2002, 17:23: Message edited by: MCA ] |
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Dear LLigetfa, About upgrading the main pages of "kixtart.org" we have already discussed during an earlier topic See our suggestion for upgrading Question: Henri, when implementing new UBB 6.3.1 release? within two weeks greetings. |
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mca, got 2 corrections: -it's helpdesk.kixtart.org -scriptlogic is not even nearly always the fastest to publish... amongst the fastest always but that is totally different. then, as you said in your first post, the help on helpdesk.kixtart.org is not same as in chm-file. I know that it's not same as what comes to outlook, can't be as their running env is not same. but then comes the question of same mistakes. it indeed has same mistakes, as example see: http://helpdesk.kixtart.org/KixManual2001/Functions/readprofilestring.asp |
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Brian, I understand how you may get upset if someone took your work and passed it off as their own, but before you make inflammatory remarks, make sure you have all the facts straight. To quote you, "The pages at helpdesk.kixtart.org are identical to those of the CHM (and online reference) from ScriptLogic.com". This is not accurate. A cursory glance shows your CHM and on-line doc (version 4.12 - http://www.scriptlogic.com/kixtart/htmlhelp/Reference/!keyword-index.htm#A ) make reference to Abs() but no such reference exists on the http://helpdesk.kixtart.org/KixManual2001/Reference/Keyword-index.asp#A version. It would appear that the helpdesk.kixtart.org manual is based on version 4.02. There was also your accusation of NTDOC which you have since taken back. Unfortunately you also edited the original post so it is difficult for others to review the entire thread objectively. As I said, choose your words carefully, review them for accuracy, and them leave them intact so that subsequent comments may remain 'in context'. With regard to your on-line manual, it lacks some of the content of the CHM and original DOC. When we post replies, we often like to make reference to those other portions of the manual and not just to those covered by keywords. A search tool would be nice so that we may quickly find those references and if I may reiterate, a link to download the CHM. |
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MCA, I think time has shown us that a public thread, like the one you reference, has little influence over Henri, and that if you want something done, you have to ask him directly. I seem to have fallen out of favour with Henri as my requests of late simply get ignored. I was hoping that maybe someone else could convince Henri to update the home page and the download section. If Henri no longer has the time or desire to maintain the information on the board then it would be nice if he whould seek a volunteer to delegate the task to. It is sad to see it fall into such a state of neglect. |
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Dear Lonkero, Thanks, we repair the URL specification. Amongst the fatest always, of course it can be possible that Ruud is distributing his new version when Scriptlogic is sleeping. Our experience is that during working hours of Scriptlogic there is not much time between distribution and publishing. Sometimes they are making a fast update during other hours. As reaction on your latest reaction. the help on helpdesk.kixtart.org is not the same as in chm-file means that they don't did a simple binary edit on the CHM file from Scriptlogic. With a binary edit you can replace f.e. the name Scriptlogic with another one or with spaces. In this case they have made a new compilation of it. The result will be influen- cing by the environment using during compilation. Also different releases of software using influences as the binary result. For that reason we must make a comparison in a different way to see are f.e. the structures and the internal names the same or not. Also when you see the example of WriteProfileString description someone makes a copy of it. It is impossible to claim copyrights by both, when two people are writting something and the results are exactly the same. Compared with both HTML versions the results are very sensational. Scriptlogic crea- tes it with FrontPage and "helpdesk.kixtart.org" gets nearly the same results without using it. For us it is very clear, who is the owner of it. Scriptlogic is publishing during a lot of year CHM files. helpdesk.kixtart.org (or kixtart.org/helpdesk) pass just his first anniversary. The related topics were
btw: Les, we will react on you feedback when necessary. (our reaction 3900 to the board) [ 09. December 2002, 02:00: Message edited by: MCA ] |
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Dear Les,
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MCA, I am not refuting Brian's claim, simply stating that accuracy in what one says is important to maintain credibility. As mentioend it was only "A cursory glance". I have not analyzed the 4.02 CHM in detail nor compared it word-for-word with the original DOC version. With regard to motivating Henri, to the contrary, I think a duplication of efforts is something that needs to be promoted rather than avoided. It is obvious that my seeds (efforts) have fallen on infertile soil. |
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les you are not alone. MCA, it is very un-clean what you are saying about the copying. all I'm saying that I can't just take someones word about copying by just simple accuse:"you are a liar" nor can I say that the contents is so much different on the sites. anyway you say missing something is that someone can't copy anymore. maybe, but the manual on the site simply happens to be old as the one on kixtart.org/manual 4.00!!! ...or 4.02 it simply can mean that his site uses the same manual as base and translates it on the fly. also, you say 2900, I say 3900 |
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Lonkero / LLigetfa - I really wish you would perform a closer examination. When I state 'exacly the same', I am obviosuly referring to the 4.02-ish version of the manual. That is the time period when Brian ripped his pages from the ScriptLogic produced CHM. When he ripped the content, he obviously edited the pages and added the appropriate banners to make it an integrated part of his web site. This is apparent on the KeyWordIndex page: There were only two changes: 1) He added his web site header and 2) he removed the last line of the page which read "This HTML help system is maintained by ScriptLogic Corporation. For updates to KiXtart and this help system, please visit www.scriptlogic.com/kixtart" He has obviously not re-ripped it recently; probably because he would have to re-invest the necessary time to re-brand it for his site. LLigetfa - You have probably realized this, given your post http://www.scriptlogic.com/support/Forums/display_message.asp?mid=5308 over at ScriptLogic's forum earlier today. There you helpfully point out that the HTML pages had 'curly quotes' on some pages and that two TOC pages have wrong links -- specifically the QUIT command links to the rd.htm page. Now it comes as no surprise to me that Brian's pages over at helpdesk have the exact same mistake. Coincidence? I think not. MCA - I appreciate you actually spending time and doing enough research to 'see the light.' Lastly, LLigetfa - you stated: "There was also your accusation of NTDOC which you have since taken back. " Allow me to clarify: I did not 'take it back', but rather I corrected a typo -- I was not accusing NTDOC, but I mistakenly typed his website instead of helpdsek.kixtart.org (they are similar you know). -BSTYLES PS. Again, please remember that I personally don't have a problem regarding the html pages that were created by ScriptLogic and later reposted at Brian's site, nor would I have a problem if they were reposted at other sites. What I have a problem with is that Brian Peterson still does not give proper credit (and linking) to ScriptLogic for creating the compilation and that he is still not confessing to what he did. * * * * * * * Old versions of the CHM produced by ScriptLogic are still available online: http://www.scriptlogic.com/downloads/kix/kixtart363.chm http://www.scriptlogic.com/downloads/kix/kixtart402.chm http://www.scriptlogic.com/downloads/kix/kixtart410.chm http://www.scriptlogic.com/downloads/kix/kixtart411.chm http://www.scriptlogic.com/downloads/kix/kixtart412.chm |
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like I have said many times, I'm not sure and this is fight I'm not willing to involve too much. nor I don't think any other is willing neither as this issue has not been taken to court. anyway, the les' post at scriptlogic forum, isn't the same problem of those curly quotes also in kixtart-bible? [ 09. December 2002, 01:46: Message edited by: Lonkero ] |
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I want everyone to know that this whole pissing contest is shit. bstyles, you jumped all over Les' comments about the exact same curly quotes that appeared in "Exist(), SetASCII(), and USE" in both ScriptLogic's CHM and the http://helpdesk.kixtart.org/ site. These same exact curly quotes are exactly the same in the 4.02 Kix2001.doc word document supplied in the 4.02 distribution. So I guess the fact the ScriptLogic ripped the text from the word document first give you bragging rights or something. So since it appears that ScriptLogic just copied someone else’s hard work (Kix2001.doc), unless you wrote that too, then you should be less vocal in your criticism. If you could do that, why couldn’t he? Based on this particular evidence (the curly quotes), I don't think you have much to piss & moan about at this time. If you did write the Kix2001.doc file, then you have my sincerest apologies for the above comments. [ 09. December 2002, 02:20: Message edited by: Howard Bullock ] |
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Lonkero, We based our opinion on facts. We made a depth analyze of both results. Not only from the outside but also from the inside. Based on that information someone must have make a copy. We shouldn't use the words "he is a liar" and we will not jump to conclusions, but based on our analyze we can come to conclusions. Of course everybody may made a copy of stuff, but in our opinion everybody should respect the rights of authors. Not respecting the rights means for us "someone is 'stealing' other's work". So we subscribe the PS from Brian. Brian, We have enough experience to know, that it is impossible to create independent of each other same result. Before taking position in it we want to be very, very sure about it. With the informa- tion on the internet such analyze was easy to made. So we absolute doesn't understand why someone is doing such things. It is of no use. greetings. btw: we repair 3900 value. the format was just copied from an old one. |
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copied, eh? hope it was yours! |
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I have to agree with Howard on this one - lets move on. All we are talking about here are re-hashes of Ruuds original document. Unless you want to add some real value - like more examples or better explainations, or actually go to the trouble of writing more than a sentence or two about how a function works ... than I don't want to hear about it either !!! [ 09. December 2002, 03:01: Message edited by: Shawn ] |
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Brian, I have always treated you fairly on this board. At no time have I taken sides on this issue. I only asked that you choose your words more carefully and that you double-check them for accuracy. The onus is upon you to provide reasonable evidence before accusing somone as you did. The curly quotes I do not see as evidence as they exist in the original DOC. So far, your entire case hangs on the fact that two adjacent commands share one hyperlink. Maybe it's coincidence, maybe not, but unless you have better evidence than that, I will consider this matter closed. This sort of name calling is very unprofessional and does not benefit the KiX community. |
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Ok, I'm done here. In closing... Howard, There is a big difference here. ScriptLogic never claimed to be the original author of the DOC manual! Why you've chosen to cloud this discussion with that is beyond me... Of course the HTML help was based on the original DOC file, duh... But that's not the debate here. ScriptLogic converted the DOC to HTML to benefit the KiXtart community as a whole. The original has been improved. In some cases better examples were given, typos corrected, and the 'see also' hyperlinks were added (which exemplifies the purpose of converting to HTML). Shawn - In converting the manual, there have been many other typos & mistakes caught and reported to Ruud over the years, which were then subsequently fixed in the 'original' DOC file. There have also been suggestions on how to make things more readable and understandable. I see this is as a collaborative effort. I also see it as adding something substantial. Am I seeing it wrong? It is obvious that this topic has gone astray, and that was not the intention when I first posted to it. I contributed to the topic to offer the HTML source to Lonkero, so he wouldn't be duplicating effort. Maybe no one likes me calling Brian P. a liar (personally, I don't consider that 'name calling'). But hey, facts are facts -- and I have every right to state them publically. You may not like what I have to say, so don't listen. ...At least what I say is the truth. I know how many man-hours when into the DOC-to-HTML conversion and how many hours it takes to update the HTML each time a new version of KiX comes out. I know the next plan was to convert the help system to an online searchable database, with visitor contributable examples and hyperlinks to UDFs that use each keyword. But, based on this feedback, I would guess that it would not be appreciated either. Without appreciation, there is no return on what I have invested. LLigetfa - thank you for treating me fairly. I would ask no more and deserve no less. I think you need to re-read the 'case' as you call it. ScriptLogic converted the DOC to CHM for KiX 3.62 and has maintained it ever since. Believe who you want - I give up... -Brian |