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#96920 - 2002-12-10 03:41 PM Why won't people use the search tool?
Les Les KiX Master Registered: 2001-06-11 Posts: 12734 Loc: fortfrances.on.ca	I just don't get it! Every day people post the same question. Do they think they will get a better quality answer today than all the previous answers already posted? What are the odds? There are different people on-line on different days. These in turn, give a different quality of answer depending on their mood. If I were researching a particular task I would want as much information as I could find on the subject. On many tasks, there are a lot of different approaches offered. Maybe the one offered today is not the best over all. Maybe it's even real bad advice. Maybe only the specific question is answered and other factors weren't even discussed. Take a recent case. Someone wanted to know how to parse a particular key in an INI file. The person was not using ReadProfileString() but rather recursing with ReadLine(). Any other day, someone may have provided an answer to work with ReadLine() instead of showing that ReadProfileString() was the way to go. The point is... today's answer may not necessarily be the best answer! Use the search tool! _________________________ Give a man a fish and he will be back for more. Slap him with a fish and he will go away forever.
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#96921 - 2002-12-10 03:44 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Lonkero Lonkero KiX Master Guru Registered: 2001-06-05 Posts: 22346 Loc: OK	frustrated? _________________________ ! download KiXnet
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#96922 - 2002-12-10 03:55 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Radimus Radimus Moderator Registered: 2000-01-06 Posts: 5187 Loc: Tampa, FL	This should cover most of the common excuses... 1: people are lazy (the reason I got into scripting) 2: people think their problems are difficult (they couldn't figure it out themselves, after all) 3: they think their problems are unique and have never been asked and/or solved before 4: they are looking for someone to write, test, and deliver a script for them 5: the search link is relatively small and may be overlooked... I missed the today's active topics link for about a year. 6. they are way out of their league and have no idea what they are supposed to do... How many new Admins have ever written a batch file or are afraid of the registry? (pt 2, How many know Roy G Biv or know the difference between extended and expanded memory) _________________________ How to ask questions the smart way <-----------> Before you ask
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#96923 - 2002-12-10 04:03 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Sealeopard Sealeopard KiX Master Registered: 2001-04-25 Posts: 11165 Loc: Boston, MA, USA	Radimus: Nice list, however,#1 should be: People do not think. I have to agree that a lot of people do not research their problem for whatever reason. Additionally, it is easier to just write a one-line question that doesn't even include all the details. And, yes, it get frustrating sometimes. However, there's not much you can do other than write RTFM/STFW all the time, but that's frustrating, too. _________________________ There are two types of vessels, submarines and targets.
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#96924 - 2002-12-10 04:09 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Les Les KiX Master Registered: 2001-06-11 Posts: 12734 Loc: fortfrances.on.ca	Jooel, I was really hoping for a 'quality' answer. No, frustrated is not the right word, disappointed is more like it. I would like to think that this board is frequented by SyaAdmins. Based on the quality of many questions, and nearly as many poor answers, I have to wonder... is this the calibre of talent you want running your network? Almost every day I get flamed for trying to get people on this board to improve their analytical skills. Are we just manning the drive-through window or are we trying to better knowledge of KiX? Do you want fries with that? /RantOff _________________________ Give a man a fish and he will be back for more. Slap him with a fish and he will go away forever.
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#96925 - 2002-12-10 04:15 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Sealeopard Sealeopard KiX Master Registered: 2001-04-25 Posts: 11165 Loc: Boston, MA, USA	I don't think it's limited to SysAdmins. I have a lot of users who rather give me a call and ask my how to center their text in Word instead of looking at the Word Online Help. There seems to be an aversion to using online helps and/or manuals. I also have the impression that people in general are not good at reading manuals (VCRs would be an example). I always take at least a cursory glace at a manual even if I believe to know the equipment. Anyway, 80% drive-through and 20% sit-down questions is pretty good, I think. _________________________ There are two types of vessels, submarines and targets.
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#96926 - 2002-12-10 04:33 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Richard H. Richard H. Administrator Registered: 2000-01-24 Posts: 4946 Loc: Leatherhead, Surrey, UK	I think Radimus has got most of the reasons. Of course it doesn't help that the search mechanism is broken. A search for "mingw" in all forums should return 4 topics, as that is how often I've mentioned it. In fact it returns 46. How many unrelated or irrelevant posts would you read before deciding that the search mechanism was not the way to get the answer? I don't think we get too many repeat offenders. Usually it is a low count poster, who in their naivety haven't considered searching. Once they've been put right they usually behave themselves. I'd have to hold my hands up to being directed to existing posts when I've queried something that I thought was obscure. It is sometimes irritating when it happens for the tenth time in a row, but I wouldn't let it ruin your day.
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#96927 - 2002-12-10 04:44 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Kdyer Kdyer KiX Supporter Registered: 2001-01-03 Posts: 6241 Loc: Tigard, OR	Maybe make the Search Link Above using a JavaScript Button.. That way, it is more obvious. Consider the following code One line broken up.. code: <INPUT type="button" value="Search KiXtart.org" onClick="location.href='http://www.kixtart.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search'" style="font-weight: bold; cursor:hand"> Thanks, Kent _________________________ Utilize these resources: UDFs (Full List) KiXtart FAQ & How to's
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#96928 - 2002-12-10 04:53 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Les Les KiX Master Registered: 2001-06-11 Posts: 12734 Loc: fortfrances.on.ca	I like the way the Symantec forum is laid out. Search is really 'in your face' there. http://servicenews.symantec.com/cgi-bin/browse.cgi?group=symantec.support.network.nortonantivirus.corporateversion75&tpre=biz&product=nav&mini_version=nav%2D75%2Dce& Mind you, that is the only thing I like about it. _________________________ Give a man a fish and he will be back for more. Slap him with a fish and he will go away forever.
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#96929 - 2002-12-10 04:53 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Lonkero Lonkero KiX Master Guru Registered: 2001-06-05 Posts: 22346 Loc: OK	little too much? quote: <a href="http://www.kixtart.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search;search_forum=14" title="Search">search</a> is current, so all it would need: quote: <a href="http://www.kixtart.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search;search_forum=14" title="Search" style="font-weight:bold">search</a> maybe color red and size 58 sorry les. [ 11. December 2002, 01:14: Message edited by: Lonkero ] _________________________ ! download KiXnet
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#96930 - 2002-12-10 04:56 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Sealeopard Sealeopard KiX Master Registered: 2001-04-25 Posts: 11165 Loc: Boston, MA, USA	I like that approach, there should be a quick search just under the top right corner under the BBS links. [ 10. December 2002, 16:58: Message edited by: sealeopard ] _________________________ There are two types of vessels, submarines and targets.
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#96931 - 2002-12-10 05:51 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Kdyer Kdyer KiX Supporter Registered: 2001-01-03 Posts: 6241 Loc: Tigard, OR	Could also be that some people want something for nothing? Or, just want somebody to write a script for them? Kent _________________________ Utilize these resources: UDFs (Full List) KiXtart FAQ & How to's
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#96932 - 2002-12-10 05:54 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Jack Lothian Jack Lothian MM club member Registered: 1999-10-22 Posts: 1169 Loc: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada	I really like Howard's moderator message that he bumps to the top regularly. Maybe all forums should do this plus maybe the there could be a short reference to searching the forum included in these intros to the forums. Also there could be a link to the search page or maybe the FAQ on searching. Also maybe moderators could modify their signitures so they always mention a reference to the search feature & the FAQ on this topic. Last thought, maybe someone like Jooel could develop a more effective search tool that we advertise & encourage newbees to use. Right now the "search" feature is always visible. We can not force newbees to find it & the FAQs. No matter what we do some will miss these features. _________________________ Jack
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#96933 - 2002-12-10 06:11 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Sealeopard Sealeopard KiX Master Registered: 2001-04-25 Posts: 11165 Loc: Boston, MA, USA	Updated my signature (final version) _________________________ There are two types of vessels, submarines and targets.
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#96934 - 2002-12-10 06:12 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Kdyer Kdyer KiX Supporter Registered: 2001-01-03 Posts: 6241 Loc: Tigard, OR	Jack, Thanks for the suggestion. I have implemented the add to the signature. Kent _________________________ Utilize these resources: UDFs (Full List) KiXtart FAQ & How to's
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#96935 - 2002-12-10 07:28 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Radimus Radimus Moderator Registered: 2000-01-06 Posts: 5187 Loc: Tampa, FL	Me too _________________________ How to ask questions the smart way <-----------> Before you ask
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#96936 - 2002-12-10 08:29 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
MCA MCA KiX Supporter Registered: 2000-04-28 Posts: 5152 Loc: Netherlands, EU	Dear, Of course it makes us happy, that more people will use the search engine. A real problem is, that your information will not stored in the same way as in a full text retrieval system. during the search it is searching through plain text files. you as user doesn't have enhough BOOLEAN operators to find the requested topics. a nice example is "mingw" keyword. user should remember the right keyword(s). speed of searching is acceptable but not extremly fast. The idea from Howard and me on starters forum was inspired by "what are the most common issues newbies are ignoring". A pity is that on a very regular base it must BUMP to the top. Indeed we like the new signature formats. Newbies will see it always and once they will try them. greetings. _________________________ email scripting@wanadoo.nl homepage scripting@wanadoo.nl \| Links \| Summary of Site Site KiXforms FAQ kixtart.org library collection mirror MCA \| FAQ & UDF help file UDF kixtart.org library collection mirror MCA \| mirror USA \| mirror europe UDF scriptlogic library collection UDFs \| mirror MCA
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#96937 - 2002-12-10 10:38 PM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Les Les KiX Master Registered: 2001-06-11 Posts: 12734 Loc: fortfrances.on.ca	Well, I've heard all the excuses. Some rank right up there with "my dog ate my homework". One thing I do when sitting on job interviews is to see how well candidates can use resources and ask questions. I must say that some of those that post here wouldn't make the short list. Then again, they would likely refuse to work for me anyway, so probably a moot point. _________________________ Give a man a fish and he will be back for more. Slap him with a fish and he will go away forever.
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#96938 - 2002-12-11 12:23 AM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Jack Lothian Jack Lothian MM club member Registered: 1999-10-22 Posts: 1169 Loc: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada	Les, During the last year the board has changed alot. Not only has the quality of the posts by the senior members increased tremendously but the number of members has mushroomed & I believe the quality of questions has got better. As a point, when I started on this board there was not a question posted here that I could not field but for the last 6 months or so I would say that about a third of the questions are outside the scope of my knowledge. Yes we do get some of the old & obvious questions that are sometimes badly phrased but there has been an up swing. I believe this is in part due to things like the FAQ & UDF forums developed by you & others. People are using them & the simple questions are diminishing. I do recognize that it is frustrating that all users don't recognize the power of the search engine, FAQ & UDFs but there has been a definite improvement. Having said that, I am glad you constantly challenge us to raise our standards. Several of your suggestions-challenges have led to improvements in the board. After all it was your question that just resulted in many moderators changing the way the do their signatures. Keep trucking _________________________ Jack
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#96939 - 2002-12-11 12:37 AM Re: Why won't people use the search tool?
Lonkero Lonkero KiX Master Guru Registered: 2001-06-05 Posts: 22346 Loc: OK	les, any open vacansies? _________________________ ! download KiXnet
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