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#91786 - 2003-03-16 11:08 PM Forms Designer for KiXforms
Stevie Stevie Starting to like KiXtart Registered: 2002-01-09 Posts: 199	Hello all, I've been fooling around the last day and a half with a forms designer for kixforms. Even though it says "BETA" it's really more a proof of concept that it can be done. It's not actually useable in its present state. Although the most time consuming part is behind me, integrating all the existing controls into it will take some doing. The ultimate goal: A VB-type forms designer for KiXforms where you can drag controls around and set their properties via GUI and then it will create the script code for you. Hopefully, it can provide a quick way to get your forms built so you can start doing the fun stuff faster. As of right now: There are only two controls that can be dropped onto the form: button and checkbox. They can be moved around the form at will and the button can even be resized. Selecting a control you've added and pressing 'Properties' gives you a view of all the properties you can modify. This list of properties is itself modifiable in the 'kix.ini' file which is in the install directory. Don't recommend modifying it at this time though, needs a lot more work first. You can also modify Form properties by clicking on the form itself and then selecting properties. When you have the form looking the way you want, select 'Create Script' and give it a path and it will generate exactly what you see on the form (that's the hope anyway). Before I spend an undue amount of time on this I first wanted to check with you guys to see if it's worth pursuing or not. If nobody's gonna use it then it's gone as far as its gonna go. Let me know what you think. You can get it here _________________________ Stevie
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#91787 - 2003-03-17 03:24 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Sealeopard Sealeopard KiX Master Registered: 2001-04-25 Posts: 11165 Loc: Boston, MA, USA	Definitely worth it. I'm currently experimenting with VB and VB.NEt to create the forms, that I can then translate manually into KiXForms. _________________________ There are two types of vessels, submarines and targets.
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#91788 - 2003-03-17 11:26 PM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Shawn Shawn Administrator Registered: 1999-08-13 Posts: 8611	Steve A big and a thumbs-up from Canada - well done especially given that it you only spent a couple of days on it. It usually takes me a couple of days just to think about how to code something. I ESPECIALLY like the INI file idea. Totally customizable by the developer - and original - haven't seen anything like that implemented before. But I am surprised by the lack of feedback on this one - not too sure what to make of that, but if theres anything I can do to move this along please let me know. Anything at all. My two cents - what would be really cool is if you could drag the controls in real time. Plus - i really like having the olde FORM GRID in VB - not too sure if you've given any thought to that. -Shawn
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#91789 - 2003-03-18 05:02 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Stevie Stevie Starting to like KiXtart Registered: 2002-01-09 Posts: 199	Well, there doesn't seem to be a lot of support but maybe that's because it's a sample app so nobody's downloading it. Don't know... Real-time dragging isn't something that even occurred to me. That's a great idea! Shouldn't be too tough to implement. For the form grid are you thinking more of it as a reference or as an actual "snap-to" grid for positioning controls? You really got me thinking about that real-time dragging... I can sleep anytime... _________________________ Stevie
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#91790 - 2003-03-18 05:30 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Lonkero Lonkero KiX Master Guru Registered: 2001-06-05 Posts: 22346 Loc: OK	uhm... not thought? I was actually silently waiting for something like that before going to try more _________________________ ! download KiXnet
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#91791 - 2003-03-18 05:51 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Shawn Shawn Administrator Registered: 1999-08-13 Posts: 8611	Yeah - the snap-to-grid - i love that feature ! And the realtime dragging (for lack of a better term) even if it was just an outline of the window frame that got dragged. But I wouldn't sweat it until you get more feedback.
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#91792 - 2003-03-18 06:22 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Stevie Stevie Starting to like KiXtart Registered: 2002-01-09 Posts: 199	DOWNLOAD HERE! The designer is now a bit more functional. The following controls are supported: CommandButton CheckBox ListBox ComboBox Label TextBox Realtime dragging is enabled with the following exceptions: CheckBox does not drag in realtime (yet), although it is draggable ComboBox is NOT draggable at all, you have to click on it and then go to properties to set the Top and Left properties which will update the control on the form. For now, if you move a textbox where you want the combobox to go you can get the Top and Left properties quickly Miscellaneous issues: next rev will include a way to delete controls from forms. Also noticed that there is a delay after the prompt says "script written" to the time it actually finishes writing. I think I've got some sloppy file handles that aren't releasing in a timely fashion. Easily fixable though. Enjoy [ 18. March 2003, 06:40: Message edited by: Steve B ] _________________________ Stevie
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#91793 - 2003-03-18 06:46 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Jose Jose Seasoned Scripter Registered: 2001-04-04 Posts: 693 Loc: Buenos Aires - Argentina	He Steve where have u left the spacecraft? U have made this from 23:08 to 06:22? Keep that way we are gonna have a nice editor soon I guess. Check the combo does not move as the others. Have u been to www.kixforms.org ? {cause I havent seen u yet } [ 19. March 2003, 13:39: Message edited by: jose3 ] _________________________ Life is fine.
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#91794 - 2003-03-18 07:30 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Stevie Stevie Starting to like KiXtart Registered: 2002-01-09 Posts: 199	Yeah, to move the combobox you have to use the Properties page. Until it's draggable (is that a word?) it's pretty useless. And, yes, I've been to kixforms.org many times. _________________________ Stevie
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#91795 - 2003-03-18 09:43 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
masken masken MM club member Registered: 2000-11-27 Posts: 1222 Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden	Really great work there Steve I haven't started indulging myself into KiXforms as of yet, but you're making the steps easier, that's for sure I'd appreciate an editor like this very much! So if you want to continue development I'll cheer you on for sure! _________________________ The tart is out there
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#91796 - 2003-03-18 10:41 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
rclarke rclarke Starting to like KiXtart Registered: 2001-06-08 Posts: 178 Loc: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom.	Hi Steve, This initiative gets a major thumbs up from me. In my opinion, form design can be the most time consuming part of a KiXtart/KiXforms project and anything that can accelerate the development cycle is a godsend. I have tested both versions and have the following feedback: 1. A grid and "snap to grid" feature would be very useful, and ultimately help users to design "tidier" forms. 2. Is it possible to implement dynamic positioning and resizing for all form objects? 3. Is is possible to make the object properties ListView editable rather than opening another edit parameter form? 4. The Big One - How about putting the form that is being designed inside another window that in turn has a toolbar with all the selectable controls displayed on it. That way you would alleviate the issue of having form design controls on the form that is actually being designed. I hope that makes sense. Anyway, this is a great initiative Steve and I sincerely hope that you are able to develop this utility to the full. I know that there will be a lot of KF users who will be thanking you. Kind regards, Rod. [ 18. March 2003, 10:45: Message edited by: rclarke ]
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#91797 - 2003-03-19 12:05 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Stevie Stevie Starting to like KiXtart Registered: 2002-01-09 Posts: 199	1. "snap to grid" is certainly doable. What would make that even better is if you could specify the "distance between snaps", like inside the VS.NET IDE. 2. Dynamic positioning is not hard to implement. In fact, what would be even better is if the Designer added code to the script to make the controls' positions dynamic inside the running app 3. The only problem I see here is then everything would need to be a typed modification. Right now, there are Boolean and multi-select values that make it easier to modify the fields with the separate dialog. Maybe I can combine them so that any string values are modified directly inside the listview and all others have the separate dialog. 4. That makes perfect sense. You could even make it a full blown MDI app so that you could design multiple forms at the same time. All good ideas. Thanks. _________________________ Stevie
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#91798 - 2003-03-19 12:13 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Shawn Shawn Administrator Registered: 1999-08-13 Posts: 8611	I really like the MDI app idea - even if there was only one form supported in the view, that would at least make all the form real-estate available for the designer.
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#91799 - 2003-03-19 12:34 AM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
rclarke rclarke Starting to like KiXtart Registered: 2001-06-08 Posts: 178 Loc: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom.	Hi Steve, Ref point number 3 above, I have seen ListView-esque controls that can contain ComboBoxes in a 'cell'. A good example of this is the Properties Window in the Visual Studio .NET environment. Maybe it is a special object 'cooked' up by Microsoft but it would be a very effective input mechanism for this particular application. Kind regards, Rod. [ 19. March 2003, 00:35: Message edited by: rclarke ]
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#91800 - 2003-03-19 01:43 PM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Will Hetrick Will Hetrick Hey THIS is FUN Registered: 2001-10-02 Posts: 320 Loc: Harrisburg, PA USA	Hey steve, I was looking over the new GUI designer and it looks good. Did you get a chance to look at what GHOST was doing with Kix to create a kixform? The link to Ghost is Ghost's version The code that was created by your version looked clean and well orginized. I was impressed with it. The major Question I have, and I know its probably why there is not too many replys to this post, How much is this going to cost when it is done? I remember the question about the kixeditor and it cost me $29.95 when it was said and done. Can this feature be built into Kixeditor or is this going to be another product? _________________________ You have at least 2 choices. Each choice changes your destiny. Choose wisely!
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#91801 - 2003-03-19 01:52 PM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Jochen Jochen KiX Supporter Registered: 2000-03-17 Posts: 6380 Loc: Stuttgart, Germany	Oh well, no replies does not imply noone is interested IIRC Steve was also the Author of the (free) Type Library viewer I currently use Hmmm ... Ok, now you got me interested ... will Download now _________________________
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#91802 - 2003-03-19 01:57 PM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Jochen Jochen KiX Supporter Registered: 2000-03-17 Posts: 6380 Loc: Stuttgart, Germany	Ok, got it running and found that this is a good concept Still there is mucho work to happen on it, but who do I tell this _________________________
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#91803 - 2003-03-19 02:01 PM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Jose Jose Seasoned Scripter Registered: 2001-04-04 Posts: 693 Loc: Buenos Aires - Argentina	Steve. One of the things I like about developed forms designes VB FE is the alightment. In this case Rods grid suggest would do but the distance between snaps has to be definitely editable as u said. What about snap to rulers? Rulers make it very quik. Other intresting thing about developed designers is the copy paste feature used mostly in frames when u need similar frames structures or just for simple objects. I like the movement feature, intresting step. Keep it up Man!! I asked u about Kixforms cause I havent seen u at the forum, not with this name. Thanks. [ 19. March 2003, 14:08: Message edited by: jose3 ] _________________________ Life is fine.
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#91804 - 2003-03-19 04:41 PM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Stevie Stevie Starting to like KiXtart Registered: 2002-01-09 Posts: 199	Regarding the "snap to grid" and combo boxes with "dropdown cells" and all the other great ideas yet to come, I'm in the middle of quandary... I'm currently working this with VB and am considering scrapping the whole thing and starting over in .NET. In the long run the development time will be less, it will be easier to code, easier to maintain and it will have the capability of being far more functional than the current version. My only concern with moving to .NET is that a certain percentage of people don't have/want the .NET runtime so won't be able to use the Designer. So let me know if you have a preference between VB and .NET runtimes. Jochen, you're right, there's tons left to do. If I were to start over in .NET I could probably duplicate existing functionality in a week or so. You bring up a good point--during the development lifetime of this thing, would it be better to continue this thread on kixforms.org? My only problem with that is my post count on this board will suffer as a result Sorry I tend to be so long-winded. Last thing... Will, this is (and will continue to be) a freeware distributable like the TypeLib viewer. After it's fully functional we'll probably also add it to the KiXscripts Editor (which, at $29.99 is a great deal by the way... ) To sum up, .NET vs. VB? _________________________ Stevie
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#91805 - 2003-03-19 07:30 PM Re: Forms Designer for KiXforms
Stevie Stevie Starting to like KiXtart Registered: 2002-01-09 Posts: 199	Jose, Copy and paste is a good idea. Like you say, especially for frames where you have lots of controls and want a duplicate or similar copy. BTW--I haven't spent much time on the messageboard over there. Most of my time on kixforms.org has been spent looking at scripts people have done. It's so amazing to me to see everything that people are working on. Shawn has really started a whole revolution. _________________________ Stevie
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