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#115972 - 2004-03-11 05:31 PM OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
Allen Administrator Offline
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Recently, there have been a few posts with people asking how to convert groups from one type to another. In my experience, I have used nothing but Global groups, and it got me to thinking... "am I missing something?"

The differences between Global and Universal seem obvious enough. However, the differences between Domain Local and Global are not so clear. Between a Exam Cram book, a MS Training kit, and a Tech Net article, I still have no idea why anyone would use a Domain Local Group.

Anyone care to elaborate why/how you use this type of group? Examples would be appreciated.
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#115973 - 2004-03-11 06:17 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
Bryce Offline
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just to keep with MS's UGLy standard method of resource control...

(U}sers into Global
(G)lobal into Local
(L)ocal to the resource
(y)???... because it is UGLY! (the resource....)

One of the little "MS" tricks i learned getting my mcse.

Quote:

Recently, there have been a few posts with people asking how to convert groups from one type to another. In my experience, I have used nothing but Global groups, and it got me to thinking... "am I missing something?"

The differences between Global and Universal seem obvious enough. However, the differences between Domain Local and Global are not so clear. Between a Exam Cram book, a MS Training kit, and a Tech Net article, I still have no idea why anyone would use a Domain Local Group.

Anyone care to elaborate why/how you use this type of group? Examples would be appreciated.



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#115974 - 2004-03-11 06:23 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
Les Offline
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Well... in the old NT4 realm, AGLP (Account goes into Global group which goes into the Local group which gets the Permission) it makes sense, but with AD there is now Domain Local which frankly confuses me too.
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#115975 - 2004-03-11 06:29 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
Bryce Offline
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would not the the AD "Domain Local" be the same thing as a NT4 domain controller "local group"


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#115976 - 2004-03-11 06:39 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
Les Offline
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NO

There are Local groups and then there are Domain Local groups.
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#115977 - 2004-03-11 06:42 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
Les Offline
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http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/dsscd_grp_ygzd.asp
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#115978 - 2004-03-11 06:46 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
Bryce Offline
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ok... maby i am just being slow....

but how does one create a "local" group on a AD Domain controller??

In nt4 all domain controllers shared the same local groups... It really seems like the "Domain local" is the AD incarnation of the NT4 DC local group...

Bryce



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#115979 - 2004-03-11 06:55 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
Allen Administrator Offline
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Les, thanks for the link... still unclear though...

Quote:

One advantage of using domain local groups as resource groups is that domain local groups can be managed anywhere in the domain. Creating local groups requires the resource manager to access the specific computer where the local group is to be created. Another advantage of using domain local groups as resource groups is that domain local groups are visible in Active Directory. Assuming that the domain local group is named in a meaningful way, it is relatively easy to locate the resource group and modify it to add or remove account groups.

However, there are also significant disadvantages to using domain local groups as resource groups. For example, suppose Bob is managing a file server with 500 shares, each of which has three resource groups to define the three common access levels. If Bob uses domain local groups for the resource groups, 1,500 groups will be displayed in Active Directory Users and Groups in the Microsoft Management Console (MMC). Furthermore, suppose that Bob has 50 file servers. Even with a meaningful group naming policy, it is not going to be easy to find the right resource group among 75,000 group names. In this case, Bob is much more likely to choose local groups as resource groups





Isn't what they are calling Domain Local Groups, Global Groups?
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#115980 - 2004-03-11 07:01 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
Allen Administrator Offline
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Bryce... You may be correct but I can't be sure...

From "Windows Server 2003 Environment Training Kit":
Quote:

Domain Local groups function as a local group on the domain controller while the domain is in mixed functional level.




But then it goes on to say:
Quote:

Have domainwide scope in Windows 2000 native and WIndows Server 2003 domain functional level domains, and can be used to grant resource permission on any Windows Server 2003 computer within, but not beyond, the domain in which the group exists.





Clear as mud yet?
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#115981 - 2004-03-11 07:13 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
Bryce Offline
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Quote:

Bryce... You may be correct but I can't be sure...

From "Windows Server 2003 Environment Training Kit":
Quote:

Domain Local groups function as a local group on the domain controller while the domain is in mixed functional level.




But then it goes on to say:
Quote:

Have domainwide scope in Windows 2000 native and WIndows Server 2003 domain functional level domains, and can be used to grant resource permission on any Windows Server 2003 computer within, but not beyond, the domain in which the group exists.





Clear as mud yet?




Ok i understand now...

the domain local has different method of functions depending on the type of domain it is a member of.

I am running 2000 mixed/native mode right now. So "domain local" is functioning much like the old nt4 domain controller local group.

With AD running in 2003 mode the "domain local" changes so that ALL 2003 non DC servers can use "domain local" just like a "local" group. it is a global group :P but MS calls it LOCAL to fit into their resource control model.

Bryce

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#115982 - 2004-03-11 11:59 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
Allen Administrator Offline
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I think I'll just stick with Global Groups.

Thanks for the help.
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#115983 - 2004-03-12 02:46 AM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
NTDOC Administrator Offline
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Hi Al,

Basically without going into a lot of white paper detail.

Usage also depends on if you're in Native Mode or not and if you are multi domain or single domain.

In a multi domain model here is what should work well for you.

Place accounts into Global groups from each domain
Place Global groups into Universal groups and ACL using the Universal group. This then allows users from any of your domains to access data from any of your domains.

The use of Domain Local Groups will work fine in general except that you can not ACL objects on other domains, it can only be used for ACL on the same domain. Thus using Global into Universal and ACL can then be used on any of the domains. DO NOT place user accounts into Universal groups though as that will place a heavy load on your Global Catalog Servers. GCS do not see the changes to accounts within a Global Group that resides in the Universal Group, so traffic is much less then if you actually use accounts in the Universal. Global Groups rarely change so there is no update to the GC until a full replication cycle.

The one exception we have found to MS' recommendations is on mailing list/distribution list groups, which have to be Universal if they will contain members from multiple domains, otherwise not all the recipients will receive the message.


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#115984 - 2004-03-13 08:44 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups
masken Offline
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As I've understood it: Global groups are used in domain(s) in the same forest. Domain local only in your own domain. For cross-forest security you tie global groups into Universal ones (which, as I've heard, never should be messed with once created cause thigns are likely to go wrong).

?
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#203946 - 2011-12-15 06:12 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups [Re: Bryce]
tjcarst Offline
Hey THIS is FUN

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ComputerInGroup and EnumComputerInGroup only enumerates Domain Local groups on Windows 7.

I am looking at possibly having to change a couple hundred global groups into domain local.

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#203955 - 2011-12-15 09:53 PM Re: OT - Global vs Domain Local Groups [Re: tjcarst]
NTDOC Administrator Offline
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This is a 7 year old topic (long before Windows Vista/Win7/Server 2008) ever came along.

I would investigate this a bit more before changing groups myself. Microsoft has heavily modified how the network redirector works in Windows 7 and that may have something to do with it.

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