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#161862 - 2006-05-12 08:26 AM Checking existing Subnets
AstaaLavista Offline
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Registered: 2005-08-11
Posts: 111
Loc: Gujarat, India.
Hi,

Is there any way to know whether a subnet say 10.76.87 still exists ???
i.e. what i want is given a list of subnets, i want to find out if all those subnets are still in use?
Thank you.

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#161863 - 2006-05-12 08:34 AM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Björn Offline
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Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 953
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden.
Yo. A quick search in the UDF-forum gave me this:
http://www.kixtart.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB12&Number=119977

There's a few more that might narrow down exactly what you wanna do.
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#161864 - 2006-05-12 10:08 AM Re: Checking existing Subnets
AstaaLavista Offline
Starting to like KiXtart

Registered: 2005-08-11
Posts: 111
Loc: Gujarat, India.
i had a look at those 2 UDFs. but that is not what i want...Actually u have to provide 1 i.p. in the UDF.
what i want is the list of all possible subnets in the network ?

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#161865 - 2006-05-12 10:15 AM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Björn Offline
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Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 953
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden.
oh, sorry about that, read your question a bit to fast
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#161866 - 2006-05-12 10:43 AM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Richard H. Administrator Offline
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Registered: 2000-01-24
Posts: 4946
Loc: Leatherhead, Surrey, UK
Have a look at the following thread:
http://www.kixtart.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=119977&an=&page=0&vc=1

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#161867 - 2006-05-12 10:46 AM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Björn Offline
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Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 953
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden.
lol Richard, that's the same post I gave him =)
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as long as it works - why fix it?
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#161868 - 2006-05-12 10:57 AM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Richard H. Administrator Offline
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Loc: Leatherhead, Surrey, UK
Yeah, spotted that after I posted

However it *will* do what he wants - the IP Decimal UDF can be used for any type of network enumeration, from tiny subnets up to the entire 0.0.0.0 - 255.255.255.255 scope, though that might take quite a while

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#161869 - 2006-05-12 06:22 PM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Howard Bullock Offline
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Registered: 2000-09-15
Posts: 5809
Loc: Harrisburg, PA USA
You may be able to see if an IP address is active, but I do not think you can reliably check for a subnet. The reason I say that a subnet 10.1.2.128/25 may not exist if the router was reconfigured to 10.1.2.0/24. The original subnet no longer exists but all the IP addresses could stil be active.
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#161870 - 2006-05-12 06:46 PM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Gargoyle Offline
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Loc: Valley of the Sun (Arizona, US...
And as a network engineer, if you are planning on doing a ping sweep of a range, you would be immediatly blocked from the network, as my policy's would identify you as a hacker.
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#161871 - 2006-05-15 09:34 AM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Richard H. Administrator Offline
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Quote:

You may be able to see if an IP address is active, but I do not think you can reliably check for a subnet. The reason I say that a subnet 10.1.2.128/25 may not exist if the router was reconfigured to 10.1.2.0/24. The original subnet no longer exists but all the IP addresses could stil be active.




Sure, however once you have an active address you would check the subnet mask on the device to determine the subnet. You'd want to do that anyway to avoid pinging the rest of the devices on the subnet which would be a waste of time once you'd determined that it was up.

There are some cuter ways of getting the information. We have centralised DHCP, so I can just enumerate the DHCP scopes looking for any which haven't got any recent leases and then check the default gateway specified in the scope to see if it is available.

I also have a special DNS sub-zone for network equipment to aid my bespoke network monitoring software, so I can very quickly check the state of every router in the network.

Another options is to enumerate DNS to check to active hosts, ignoring IP addresses for sites which have already showed active - this is more accurate when looking for active sites rather than inactive ones.

In my network the primary router at a site is always the last IP address in the network range, so for example if the network is 192.168.8.0/22 then I know that the router LAN address is 192.168.11.254 - given a range of possible networks I can very quickly determine whether they are available.

A more complex solution is to use SNMP to read your local router. If your network is simple enough you will be able to check the routing table for a route to the network that you are interested in. If you have a very complicated network with route summarisation or default routing then you will need to enumerate all the next hop routers recursively until you've mapped your entire network. A sort of KiXtart network discovery.

I'd like to use the network discovery method myself for keeping an eye on my network but unfortunately I'm in the middle of switching from Frame-Relay point-to-point to MPLS cloud, and the next-hop routers are ISP managed devices that we have no access to

So, there are a number of ways of doing it. What you do depends on what control you already have over your network, how complicated you want to make the process and (most importantly) what you are actually trying to do.

Personally if a network engineer came to me and said that he could not tell me which of the subnets he was responsible for were still active he'd get my boot up his arse as a timely reminder of the importance of keeping documentation up-to-date.

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#161872 - 2006-05-15 01:58 PM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Howard Bullock Offline
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Loc: Harrisburg, PA USA
Since routers are where subnets are defined, my suggestion would be to have the people that manage the routers script a solution to list all configured subnets on each router.
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#161873 - 2006-05-15 02:22 PM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Gargoyle Offline
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Registered: 2004-03-09
Posts: 1597
Loc: Valley of the Sun (Arizona, US...
Quote:

he'd get my boot up his arse




You are correct with that statement, any network engineer that knows what he is doing should be able to provide this type of documentation upon request.

Another thing to consider is that if you do not have full control of the network, ping may not work for you as it could be blocked between subnets, in my network, if you are not on the admin team, ICMP does not work for you at all, you can see your local subnet, but no more than that.
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#161874 - 2006-05-15 02:26 PM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Howard Bullock Offline
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Registered: 2000-09-15
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Richard, when examining the subnet mask of a client, one has to understand if the mask was manually entered or was given to the client by a DHCP server. I agree with you that the subnet data should be derived from a suitable source such a router docs or DHCP definitions. But if clients are manually configured we have seen many times that incorrect data could be entered into the IP configuration. At times these clients even seem to work with incorrect configs. I would advise that clients no be used at all for determining subnet data. That being said, I collect this information from my clients and compare it to the subnets defined in QIP to find those inconsistencies in the ip environment.
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#161875 - 2006-05-15 03:16 PM Re: Checking existing Subnets
Richard H. Administrator Offline
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Loc: Leatherhead, Surrey, UK
The technique you employ depends on what you are going to use the information for, and what level of information you have access to. I'd always interrogate the routers for this sort of information if I could, however I no longer have access to the PE routers so I cannot actually get past the customer edge and it is not an option for me.

Traceroute is a possibility, but it is far too slow to be used in reality.

So, you have to compromise and balance your choice between complexity, reliability and the impact on your environment.

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