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#122980 - 2004-07-15 09:32 AM BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
KentLarsson Offline
Getting the hang of it

Registered: 2004-07-08
Posts: 50
Loc: Sweden, Avesta
Hi!

At the site where i work we experience a strange problem, when the PDC goes down for some reason the users can not logon anymore (they can logon with cached credentials though, but not a "real" logon) with authentication from a domain controller.

Our WINS servers are still up and running though, so i canīt see a problem there (but havenīt investigated that much yet).

Do you know of any things that can couse this? So i have something to start looking at (as i canīt really come up with much to check at otherwise).
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#122981 - 2004-07-15 10:20 AM Re: BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22346
Loc: OK
those problems are quite normal.
about all things you can do require your manual interference if you don't build scripts to do the stuff.
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#122982 - 2004-07-15 10:27 AM Re: BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
KentLarsson Offline
Getting the hang of it

Registered: 2004-07-08
Posts: 50
Loc: Sweden, Avesta
Perhaps quite common but normal? The very reason for having BDC:s is that they can authenticate users, as it is now here at the site it seems that we have a single point of failure for logons.
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#122983 - 2004-07-15 10:31 AM Re: BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22346
Loc: OK
well...
won't start arquing but...

if you loose your PDC and logons don't work, manually fix the wins data for your domain or elevate one of the BDC's to PDC until you get your real one back.
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#122984 - 2004-07-15 10:40 AM Re: BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
KentLarsson Offline
Getting the hang of it

Registered: 2004-07-08
Posts: 50
Loc: Sweden, Avesta
No there is no need for arguing, we both now the reason for BDC:s of course, and both want it to work (even though it might be common that it doesnīt).

I have heard a lot about WINS beeing more secure on Windows 2000 servers than NT4 ones (which we currently use). Do you think that it could be a problem and that we should migrate?

And what action do you think that should be taken to "manually fix the wins data for your domain"? Delete the records of the crashed PDC from the WINS database and let it register itself again when it comes back online?

And last but not least, have you tried to script anything which takes care of the manual change in the WINS database to get it working?

(as i sidenote i can say that we have a LOT of WINS servers in the enterprise, a whole lot more than Microsoft recommends so we have a big and complex replication which occurs here)


Edited by KentLarsson (2004-07-15 10:43 AM)
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#122985 - 2004-07-15 11:12 AM Re: BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22346
Loc: OK
tbh, I haven't scripted fixing the wins.
but how I did "fix" the records was by restarting computer browser service on the DC.
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#122986 - 2004-07-15 11:14 AM Re: BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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oh, and that was just because I didn't find any docs that would have introduced any way.
so, after trying various things, that's what I'm stuck with.
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#122987 - 2004-07-15 11:30 AM Re: BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
KentLarsson Offline
Getting the hang of it

Registered: 2004-07-08
Posts: 50
Loc: Sweden, Avesta
By "restarting computer browser service on the DC" do you refer to the BDC:s?

As the PDC is down due to for example that it was crushed by an elephant i can not restart anything on it, just the other servers. Just to know that we are talking about the same problem.
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Best regards, Kent

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#122988 - 2004-07-15 11:41 AM Re: BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
Lonkero Administrator Offline
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Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 22346
Loc: OK
as PDC is down, BDC takes it role.
in theory. if wins points to PDC then everything is screwed.

restarting computer browser (in any DC) should make it take the domain record to itself if the current holder is not reachable or non valid.

well, I haven't tested this so much that I would be able to say it works in all situations but in the limited scope of my usage it hasn't let me down.
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#122989 - 2004-07-15 01:19 PM Re: BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
AzzerShaw Offline
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Registered: 2003-02-20
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Loc: Cheltenham, England
We have had similiar problems at our place. Basically if your PDC goes down you must immediatley promote a BDC to take its place, otherwise your get problems galore as the BDC are only copied of the PDC and cannot been wrote too i.e change passwords etc etc. When you bring the old PDC back up it will become a BDC till you prmote it.
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If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it. - W.C Fields

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#122990 - 2004-07-15 02:37 PM Re: BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
KentLarsson Offline
Getting the hang of it

Registered: 2004-07-08
Posts: 50
Loc: Sweden, Avesta
Quote:

if your PDC goes down you must immediatley promote a BDC to take its place



This should not necessarily have to be done unless i need write access to the SAM database. For user logins everything should work, in theory anyway. If it doesnīt i think that something is wrong in the setup, thatīs what i think that we have somewhere. Either that or buggy software.
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Best regards, Kent

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#122991 - 2004-07-15 02:39 PM Re: BDC doesnīt fulfill itīs duties... ? (in NT4 env)
AzzerShaw Offline
Seasoned Scripter
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Registered: 2003-02-20
Posts: 510
Loc: Cheltenham, England
Yes agreed but if the BDC isnt sure about the users credntials (say it hasnt replicated the sam database in a while) then it will try and replciate straight, if it fails it will fall over. You are right though in theory it shouldnt but i had many instances where it has.
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If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it. - W.C Fields

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