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#106689 - 2003-11-06 03:48 PM Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	I've been using this board for a couple of years now...love Kixtart...and find the board extremely helpful. But, I've noticed something that really bothers me and I need to say something. Why is it that almost every freakin' time I see sealeopard's replies to people's questions, they're very condescending. Why is that? What is your problem sealeopard? Why do you rag on everyone? If you find yourself getting tired of telling people to search first or check certain sections, and you can't be nice about it, THEN DON'T POST ANYTHING and let someone else answer (who either 'loves' to help others, or who has a little more control over their temper). Am I the only one who's noticed this?
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#106690 - 2003-11-06 04:23 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
masken masken MM club member Registered: 2000-11-27 Posts: 1222 Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden	Well you also have to consider that anyone can get tired after years handling people who don't know what netiquette is... Many times people come here in an urgent rush because something isn't working, and they're desperate for help. Instead of calmly just searching for what's right under their noses most of the times, they go ahead and post anyway. I know, I've been there myself more than once But indeed - patience is a virtue, and that goes both way of course _________________________ The tart is out there
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#106691 - 2003-11-06 04:36 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Kdyer Kdyer KiX Supporter Registered: 2001-01-03 Posts: 6241 Loc: Tigard, OR	One of the things we try to do is to educate. Take a moment to open your mind and read the following (both of these should be required reading, but may come across a bit demeaning to some). So, "gentleness" aside here goes: How To Ask Questions The Smart Way it is a "hacker" reference, but it applies here. How to Report Bugs Effectively These should cover two of the biggest pet peeves: (1) Has this question been asked a bazillion times? (2) Is this behavior truly a "bug"? We try to have users read the following FAQ Topic:ABC's of KiXtart board etiquette... Thanks, Kent [ 06. November 2003, 16:41: Message edited by: kdyer ] _________________________ Utilize these resources: UDFs (Full List) KiXtart FAQ & How to's
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#106692 - 2003-11-06 04:41 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Radimus Radimus Moderator Registered: 2000-01-06 Posts: 5187 Loc: Tampa, FL	If you are upset by Sealeopard, just Wait for Les to get back from vacation I have been guilty of this quite a bit as well, it is just Jens' turn to wake up the newbies _________________________ How to ask questions the smart way <-----------> Before you ask
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#106693 - 2003-11-06 04:50 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Sealeopard Sealeopard KiX Master Registered: 2001-04-25 Posts: 11165 Loc: Boston, MA, USA	Hmm, maybe I do rag a little. However, I do have high expectations from IT people. I do believe that one should do some research before asking questions. Research includes taking a look at the KiXtart Manual, reading the "ABC's of KiXtart board etiquette and message to new forum users", checking the FAQ Forum, searching this BBS. If one posts, then the post should also go into the correct forum and should be well-explained. I don't think this is too much to ask from somebody. Unfortunately, a lot of people just come here, ask a question, get an anwer and maybe even code on a silver platter that they then use without understanding it. Not very helpful for that person as they haven't really learned anything from that answer. _________________________ There are two types of vessels, submarines and targets.
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#106694 - 2003-11-06 04:56 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Radimus Radimus Moderator Registered: 2000-01-06 Posts: 5187 Loc: Tampa, FL	Jens, do you really expect programmers, help desk staff, system administrators, and other so called "computer professionals" to perform a google search and/or search this BBS AND show basic courtesy.... What planet are you from? What about the beginners, that know nothing, have read nothing, and are showing no effort to figure it out themselves? _________________________ How to ask questions the smart way <-----------> Before you ask
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#106695 - 2003-11-06 05:01 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Believe me...I understand the frustration level ('cause I have to deal with users and posters aren't a whole lot different for the moderators) so I do know that part). But think about it like this...here are a couple of examples of how we 'all' do this same thing: 1) Let's say HR sends out instructions via email about an insurance process that's changed. Do you look up that procedure when your pressed to make a decision about whether you should take your kid to the hospital? Nope, you call your HR dept or Insurance Company to ask them what you should do. 2) Do you scan through your files in your desk at home to look up directions on how to file a claim when you're sitting in the middle of a highway after a car wreck? Nope...you call your insurance agent to ask them what you should do. I'm sure you could think of other examples of how we do the same thing...everyone looks to take the short route. We have people who contact me directly instead of opening tickets with the helpdesk. If we don't feel like helping them, we politely remind them of the process of opening a ticket. Yes, there's etiquette for posters, but there's also an etiquette for the moderators...right!!?
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#106696 - 2003-11-06 05:05 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Jack Lothian Jack Lothian MM club member Registered: 1999-10-22 Posts: 1169 Loc: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada	I don't agree with this assessment. While, I am not a consistent contributor anymore, I have been dropping by regularly for the last few years just to see what is up. In this role, I think I get a good overview of what happens on this board. The way I see it, Jens & Howard are two of the most patient contributors when it comes to dealing with newbies. Both consistently respond to requests no what the level of the question. Some of the other major contributors pick & choose what questions they will respond to but these guys respond to just about everything. MCA use to fill this role, but as he has cut back, Howard & Jens have filled this position. When you accept a role like this, it is a huge burden on your time and as masken says you can get tired of answering the same question a thousand times. Sometimes your answers can be curt. Jens can be gruff or curt sometimes but so can some of our other major contributors. It comes with the territory. I think it is highly appropriate for you to comment on the fact that curt responses may be increasing & this might be intimidating newbies. That would be a constructive reminder for all us. What I don’t agree with is personalizing the issue. _________________________ Jack
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#106697 - 2003-11-06 05:07 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Here's an example of one of those replies From Post : "However, if you would follow ABC's of KiXtart board etiquette and message to new forum users , Section F, we might be able to show you a more efficient way." Oooh man...harsh!!
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#106698 - 2003-11-06 05:09 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	No doubt that JENS is an extremely talented coder...as are quite a few others on here...that's why this board is so valuable. My suggestion is that if it can't be said nicely, don't say it at all...then maybe the 'newbie' would get the hint about searching.
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#106699 - 2003-11-06 05:11 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Radimus Radimus Moderator Registered: 2000-01-06 Posts: 5187 Loc: Tampa, FL	that works both ways: If I want to go to the movies, I don't call the theater to ask them what they are playing, what each movie is about, when each one starts, and how much each one costs. I could do so, but I have a handy tool called the internet and I show the initative to figure such things out myself. I suppose that is the difference between leading and following... There is always some specialized info available that needs some handholding, but if it is basic and general info, it isn't out of line to direct people to that basic and general info. Nor is it out of line to expect people to realize that when they are being directed to use some initiative and that the info they want is already available to them to use that, nor be offended by that. _________________________ How to ask questions the smart way <-----------> Before you ask
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#106700 - 2003-11-06 05:14 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Jack Lothian Jack Lothian MM club member Registered: 1999-10-22 Posts: 1169 Loc: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada	Are you prepared to increase your post count by a few thousand to offset the proposed decrease in Jens contribution? quote: Indian proverb: Do not condemn a man until you walk a mile in his moccasins. Sorry, this response is harsh but I do strongly disapprove of your personalizing the issue. [ 06. November 2003, 17:17: Message edited by: Jack Lothian ] _________________________ Jack
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#106701 - 2003-11-06 05:20 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	I totally agree with you guys about searching first. I've used the heck out of this board and haven't posted in awhile...but that's when I was a 'newbie' and wasn't too familar with everything. Bryce helped me out a lot...even offered himself through email. I was much appreciative. I don't disagree about the need for people look first...I'm just asking JENS to be a little nicer explaining this to people!!
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#106702 - 2003-11-06 05:24 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Did I say I wanted JENS to leave or not post? No...I didn't. His expertise with this is invaluable. I've just seen SO MANY replies to questions that were just plain mean that I had to say something.
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#106703 - 2003-11-06 05:26 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
ShaneEP ShaneEP MM club member Registered: 2002-11-29 Posts: 2127 Loc: Tulsa, OK	You also have to remember...It seems that Jens is from Boston so his grumpy nature may be a direct effect of the RedSox sucking so badly year after year.
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#106704 - 2003-11-06 05:30 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	AH...SHOOT!!! That explains it!!! ...an East-Coaster! I grew up in Connecticut, so I understand completely. Now that I live in the Cincinnati area, I'm not so short-tempered anymore!
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#106705 - 2003-11-06 05:33 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Here's another good one: This is also documented in the KiXtart Manual, thus please RTFM. -------------------- Jens 'There are two kinds of vessels, submarines and targets.' Please use the following KiXtart Resources before posting: KiXtart: Online KiXtart Manual \| KiXtart UDF Library \| KiXtart FAQ & How to's \| KiXtart BBS Search UserDefined Functions (UDFs): Alphabetical KORG UDF Library Collection: Mirror 1 & Mirror 2 KiXForms GUI 4 KiXtart: KiXForms Website \| Online KiXForms Documentation \| KiXForms BBS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 5093 \| From: Boston, MA \| Registered: Oct 99 \| IP: Logged \| jhansenjr Junior Member Member # 6069 Rate Member posted 22. September 2002 21:35 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks LLigetfa!! Sealeopard there is no reason to say RTFM. I thought this was for starters!!
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#106706 - 2003-11-06 05:35 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	What's funny is...I'm not 'searching' for JENS posts...I'm looking for help on things I'm working on now and just happen to be finding some!!
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#106707 - 2003-11-06 05:36 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Radimus Radimus Moderator Registered: 2000-01-06 Posts: 5187 Loc: Tampa, FL	nope... as a starter the first thing you should do is RTFM.... that is why kix is distributed with TFM to begin with. _________________________ How to ask questions the smart way <-----------> Before you ask
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#106708 - 2003-11-06 05:41 PM Re: Why does sealeopard rag on everyone?
Radimus Radimus Moderator Registered: 2000-01-06 Posts: 5187 Loc: Tampa, FL	As Jens has over 7500 posts, you are bound to come across a few _________________________ How to ask questions the smart way <-----------> Before you ask
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